Michael Stuart: Sens Marketplace: The Final Chapter with the Canadiens

I would rather have picks #2 and #3 then #1 & #5.

Agree?

I would rather have picks #2 and #3 then #1 & #5.

Agree?
- AlfieisKing

No

#1 Lafreniere would be the best thing the Sens could possibly hope for.

I think the potential of duclair is worth more than those 2 picks. Ottawa has enough picks, duclair has the potential to be a 30 goal scorer (likely would have been if they finished the year). You wouldn’t get a player as good as him with those picks. There is a far greater chance that duclair plays to his potential than that either of those picks turn out to be anything more than bottom tier AHL players

I think the potential of duclair is worth more than those 2 picks. Ottawa has enough picks, duclair has the potential to be a 30 goal scorer (likely would have been if they finished the year). You wouldn’t get a player as good as him with those picks. There is a far greater chance that duclair plays to his potential than that either of those picks turn out to be anything more than bottom tier AHL players
- sensarmy_11

I’m still on the fence about Duclair long term. When he plays well, he is the real deal, but his cold streaks are very bad since he isn’t a great all-around player.

His results are also similar to Pageau in terms of a decent amount of points on a crap team. Had he been on a half-decent team, I am not sure these results would happen.

I wouldn’t be opposed to trying to move him while he has some value, but I am also not really opposed to signing him to a decent deal.

Deciding on a player like Duclair can make or break GMs careers. Either you look like a genius or a knob.

#1 Lafreniere would be the best thing the Sens could possibly hope for.
- HoweHatrick

naaaa.... I'm taking Byfield & Stutzle over A.L and any other player with him.

I’m still on the fence about Duclair long term. When he plays well, he is the real deal, but his cold streaks are very bad since he isn’t a great all-around player.

His results are also similar to Pageau in terms of a decent amount of points on a crap team. Had he been on a half-decent team, I am not sure these results would happen.

I wouldn’t be opposed to trying to move him while he has some value, but I am also not really opposed to signing him to a decent deal.

Deciding on a player like Duclair can make or break GMs careers. Either you look like a genius or a knob.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Duclair is a guy that can play as a mid six (2nd/3rd line winger) that can score goals in bunches. But long term the jury is obv out on him being CONSISTENT. He could give offensive years like hoffman; but he still has to prove he score 25-30g

Duclair is a guy that can play as a mid six (2nd/3rd line winger) that can score goals in bunches. But long term the jury is obv out on him being CONSISTENT. He could give offensive years like hoffman; but he still has to prove he score 25-30g
- AlfieisKing

In a cap world, 2nd/3rd liners make or break hockey teams. Granted, Ottawa won’t be in a cap crunch for a few years, but bad depth contracts can add up. If Duclair gets extended, it will likely be in the 3 (low end) to 5 (high end) mill range depending on term. You better produce more than a guy on an entry level deal or cheaper free agent signing.

In a rebuild, I am sort of weary signing guys that do not project to be top 3 forwards or top 2 d-men. If too many Colin White contracts are handed out that will make it harder to sign cornerstone players, especially with Melnyk at the helm.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Duclair has big speed and great hands.

Sometimes he disconnects from his own head and he tries too hard.

Teammates love him.

I have great hope that a line mate will finally help him unlock a consistency gene.

No!!

naaaa.... I'm taking Byfield & Stutzle over A.L and any other player with him.
- AlfieisKing

Then I guess the Senators are very lucky that you are not drafting their players.

naaaa.... I'm taking Byfield & Stutzle over A.L and any other player with him.
- AlfieisKing

i'm gonna start jumping on the "delete your account" train soon

i'm gonna start jumping on the "delete your account" train soon
- sensarmy_11

get out of here with that....

so which 2 would you take over Byfield and Stuztle and why is that far fetched? It's my opinion

Then I guess the Senators are very lucky that you are not drafting their players.
- HoweHatrick

get off A.L's D**k.

How many drafts in the past 10 years has the #1 pick been the definite best player in the draft? I don't believe the hype and would rather have the big centers over the flashy LW. We have a solid LW, I'm not against A.L. but nothing wrong with wanting the players I want in the draft.

get out of here with that....

so which 2 would you take over Byfield and Stuztle and why is that far fetched? It's my opinion
- AlfieisKing

I would take Lafreniere and any other player ranked where Ottawa could pick (inside the top 7 i think) over those 2. i think the worst ranked player the send could get is Holtz

i would take Holtz and Lafrenier over Byfield and Stutzle 10000000% of the time, and so would every single scout and GM and coach in the NHL.

In a cap world, 2nd/3rd liners make or break hockey teams. Granted, Ottawa won’t be in a cap crunch for a few years, but bad depth contracts can add up. If Duclair gets extended, it will likely be in the 3 (low end) to 5 (high end) mill range depending on term. You better produce more than a guy on an entry level deal or cheaper free agent signing.

In a rebuild, I am sort of weary signing guys that do not project to be top 3 forwards or top 2 d-men. If too many Colin White contracts are handed out that will make it harder to sign cornerstone players, especially with Melnyk at the helm.

It will be interesting to see what happens.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Yeah I don't disagree with almost all of what you said above. Especially the part about Colin White because unlike Zibanejad, he's never been projected as a possible top line center. I don't think Duclair will have leverage so I don't see him being much higher than 3.

get off A.L's D**k.
- AlfieisKing

Were you not supposed to have your account deleted?

I think that would probably be best for this forum actually.

Thanks

get off A.L's D**k.

How many drafts in the past 10 years has the #1 pick been the definite best player in the draft? I don't believe the hype and would rather have the big centers over the flashy LW. We have a solid LW, I'm not against A.L. but nothing wrong with wanting the players I want in the draft.
- AlfieisKing

2019 - impossible to tell so far, only 5 had NHL games. but the 1st overall pick had the best ppg

2018 - Dahlin is still clearly the best player from that year

2017 - there are still arguments to be made for sure, but Hischier is easily a top 3 pick if they re-draft that year. that was also a year where there was no consensus #1 pick

2016 - Matthews, no doubt here

2015 - McDavid, no doubt here

2014 - Ekblad, obviously a misfire here, if it were to be re-done Draisaitl is obviously the 1st pick

2013 - Mackinnon, no doubt here

2012 - yakupov.....obviously that's a misfire, but that was one of the worst draft classes the NHL has seen in decades. Galchenyuk has the most points of anyone in the draft class

2011 - RNH....this one is debatable. obviously kucherov would be 1st OA, but that's when there were issues with the "russian factor" and the KHL. taking him out of that equation, RNH is probably still a top 5 pick

2010 - hall, still the best player from that draft


So in 10 years, there is only 2 years where the clear cut best player wasn't the 1st overall pick, 3 if you don't ignore that fact that a 3rd rd pick came out of nowhere. and in none of those years was the 1st overall pick as highly touted as Lafreniere......like not even the same ballpark

hell, keep going

tavares
stamkos (debatable, maybe, a lot of people would still take him 1st)
kane
johnson (there is your misfire)
crosby
ovechkin


in the last 16 years, there are only 3 cases where the 1st overall pick CLEARLY wasn't the best player (Yakupov, Ekblad, Johnson) and again, 4 if you dont ignore Kucherov coming out of nowhere.

so based on this, if you re-did every draft for the last 16 years:

10 times the same player for sure goes 1st overall (no reason to overturn the 2019 draft, hughes would still get picked 1st)

2 times it would be debatable (stamkos, hischier) but both players are still easily top 3 picks

1 time it's not debatable, but teh best player came out of nowhere. RNH likely still a top 3 pick, defintiely still a top 5 pick

3 times they were flops

sorry dude, the math doesn't back you up.

DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT

2019 - impossible to tell so far, only 5 had NHL games. but the 1st overall pick had the best ppg

2018 - Dahlin is still clearly the best player from that year

2017 - there are still arguments to be made for sure, but Hischier is easily a top 3 pick if they re-draft that year. that was also a year where there was no consensus #1 pick

2016 - Matthews, no doubt here

2015 - McDavid, no doubt here

2014 - Ekblad, obviously a misfire here, if it were to be re-done Draisaitl is obviously the 1st pick

2013 - Mackinnon, no doubt here

2012 - yakupov.....obviously that's a misfire, but that was one of the worst draft classes the NHL has seen in decades. Galchenyuk has the most points of anyone in the draft class

2011 - RNH....this one is debatable. obviously kucherov would be 1st OA, but that's when there were issues with the "russian factor" and the KHL. taking him out of that equation, RNH is probably still a top 5 pick

2010 - hall, still the best player from that draft


So in 10 years, there is only 2 years where the clear cut best player wasn't the 1st overall pick, 3 if you don't ignore that fact that a 3rd rd pick came out of nowhere. and in none of those years was the 1st overall pick as highly touted as Lafreniere......like not even the same ballpark

hell, keep going

tavares
stamkos (debatable, maybe, a lot of people would still take him 1st)
kane
johnson (there is your misfire)
crosby
ovechkin


in the last 16 years, there are only 3 cases where the 1st overall pick CLEARLY wasn't the best player (Yakupov, Ekblad, Johnson) and again, 4 if you dont ignore Kucherov coming out of nowhere.

so based on this, if you re-did every draft for the last 16 years:

10 times the same player for sure goes 1st overall (no reason to overturn the 2019 draft, hughes would still get picked 1st)

2 times it would be debatable (stamkos, hischier) but both players are still easily top 3 picks

1 time it's not debatable, but teh best player came out of nowhere. RNH likely still a top 3 pick, defintiely still a top 5 pick

3 times they were flops

sorry dude, the math doesn't back you up.

DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT
- sensarmy_11

A+: outstanding post.

but, the delete account comment was entirely unnecessary.

2019 - impossible to tell so far, only 5 had NHL games. but the 1st overall pick had the best ppg

2018 - Dahlin is still clearly the best player from that year

2017 - there are still arguments to be made for sure, but Hischier is easily a top 3 pick if they re-draft that year. that was also a year where there was no consensus #1 pick

2016 - Matthews, no doubt here

2015 - McDavid, no doubt here

2014 - Ekblad, obviously a misfire here, if it were to be re-done Draisaitl is obviously the 1st pick

2013 - Mackinnon, no doubt here

2012 - yakupov.....obviously that's a misfire, but that was one of the worst draft classes the NHL has seen in decades. Galchenyuk has the most points of anyone in the draft class

2011 - RNH....this one is debatable. obviously kucherov would be 1st OA, but that's when there were issues with the "russian factor" and the KHL. taking him out of that equation, RNH is probably still a top 5 pick

2010 - hall, still the best player from that draft


So in 10 years, there is only 2 years where the clear cut best player wasn't the 1st overall pick, 3 if you don't ignore that fact that a 3rd rd pick came out of nowhere. and in none of those years was the 1st overall pick as highly touted as Lafreniere......like not even the same ballpark

hell, keep going

tavares
stamkos (debatable, maybe, a lot of people would still take him 1st)
kane
johnson (there is your misfire)
crosby
ovechkin


in the last 16 years, there are only 3 cases where the 1st overall pick CLEARLY wasn't the best player (Yakupov, Ekblad, Johnson) and again, 4 if you dont ignore Kucherov coming out of nowhere.

so based on this, if you re-did every draft for the last 16 years:

10 times the same player for sure goes 1st overall (no reason to overturn the 2019 draft, hughes would still get picked 1st)

2 times it would be debatable (stamkos, hischier) but both players are still easily top 3 picks

1 time it's not debatable, but teh best player came out of nowhere. RNH likely still a top 3 pick, defintiely still a top 5 pick

3 times they were flops

sorry dude, the math doesn't back you up.

DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT
- sensarmy_11

Good post, but to really go into the appropriate depth we'd need to measure 1 and X vs 2 and 3 in each of these drafts.

...

Good post, but to really go into the appropriate depth we'd need to measure 1 and X vs 2 and 3 in each of these drafts.

...
- david22

As long as "x" is still in the top 6, you would almost always take 1 and X

Good post, but to really go into the appropriate depth we'd need to measure 1 and X vs 2 and 3 in each of these drafts...
- david22

I was thinking the same thing... though in looking back to at least 2004, in well over half of the years the #1 pick alone would have been preferable to getting both the #2 and #3 player from the same draft... getting the "X" additional player just makes it more of a skewed discussion. Plus, the sheer quality of players like Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, Kane, MacKinnon, Hall, and Matthews makes it hard to pass up picking the #1 player in a strong draft year.

.....
- sensarmy_11

what the helll wrong with you and Howie or wtr his name is. I share an opinion and you act like a 5 year old kid. Who gives a sh*t if I disagree with what your saying? It's a draft so relax and just stick to hockey.

That said here's here are the years I hands down agree with the 1st pick since the year 2000 (20 drafts): 04, 05, 07, 13, 15, 16 (still early), and rest is too early to tell. I'll give it to 18 because Dahlin's ceiling is really high, but again, come down. Everyone has an opinion. I respect yours and any Sens fan but no point to resort to other stuff

I was thinking the same thing... though in looking back to at least 2004, in well over half of the years the #1 pick alone would have been preferable to getting both the #2 and #3 player from the same draft... getting the "X" additional player just makes it more of a skewed discussion. Plus, the sheer quality of players like Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, Kane, MacKinnon, Hall, and Matthews makes it hard to pass up picking the #1 player in a strong draft year.
- khawk

I'll take Tyler Seguin, Vladimir Tarasenko, Kuznenstov over Hall. All won cups.

Outside 1 great year, I think he's overrated, he'll be overpaid his next deal